TJ talks with Lucas, a friend from the Midwest (US) who experiences same-sex attraction and generally identifies with Side B but finds understanding among several “sides” of the Christian debate. We see Lucas’s story offering an example of someone processing through faith, attraction, ethnicity, political frameworks, and arriving at a position of thoughtfulness and nuance.
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Note: We use the terms “Side A” and “Side B” as shorthand quite a bit. If you’re new to the conversation, here’s a quick explanation. We also recommend listening to our episode #3, “A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on SSA/Gay Sexuality.”
"Side A" generally refers to the perspective that affirms God can bless same-sex marriage and sexual relationships.
Sides B, X, and Y all represent perspectives that uphold the historic Christian sexual ethic of marriage between a man and a woman, and sex within marriage. Specific perspectives differ beyond that:
“Side B” recognizes people experience same-sex sexual attraction and may describe that experience by a variety of words or identity terms while still holding to the historical Christian sexual ethic.
”Side X” tends to emphasize the possibility of sexual orientation change, and ministers to gay people toward the aim of being "ex gay."
“Side Y” tends to avoid naming any kind of identity language associated with LGBT concerns, with the goal of not taking on an identity of being "gay."
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★ Timestamps
(0:00) Intro
(2:25) Lucas' church background
(7:06) The pros and cons of different words: Same-sex attraction, gayness, and more
(10:04) Lucas' story: Naming and understanding about same-sex attraction
(21:09) Lucas' story: Sharing about same-sex attraction
(29:02) An alternate vision of marriage in culture ("we make marriage more difficult than it has to be")
(35:10) Connecting culture and ethnicity with sexuality conversations
(39:25) Why aren't you side A? (or, What is marriage for?)
(43:32) Why don't you see yourself in side X or side Y?
(51:49) Side B: More opportunity for friendships?
(54:47) Suggestions for future research on queerness
(59:55) Other intersections (intellectual traditions, multi-ethnic, etc.) with Lucas' perspective
(1:02:16) The possible role of government in sexual morality
(1:09:03) Looking to the future: Co-housing
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★ Links and References
Below are some resources or terms that Lucas and TJ mention in this episode, which may help make this conversation accessible to global listeners (inclusion does not imply endorsement, of course).
Spiritual Friendship Blog: spiritualfriendship.org/
Washed and Waiting by Wesley Hill
Spiritual Friendship by Wesley Hill
Out of a Far Country by Christopher Yuan and Angela Yuan
Changed Movement: https://changedmovement.com/
Freedom March: https://www.freedomtomarch.com/
The theological idea of “concupiscence”: according to Wikipedia and the Roman Catholic encyclopedia.
In the episode, Lucas also mentioned the Pulse Massacre (Wikipedia)—content warning for violence, murder, and terror.
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★ Send us feedback, questions, comments, and support!
Email: communionandshalom@gmail.com | Instagram: @newkinship | Substack: @newkinship | Patreon: @newkinship
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★ Credits
Creators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ Espinoza | Audio Engineer: Carl Swenson, carlswensonmusic.com | Podcast Manager: Elena F. ★
#14 - Lucas: Filipino-American, Same-Sex Attracted, and Conservative Roots